Curse

Keebler Elf · Oct 14, 2005, 03:09 AM // 03:09

I have been playing a lot in competition and team arenas with this IW build. Some people complain that IW is retarded and easily countered. And for the most part, I do agree with them. So for the past month or so, I've been striving for a strong, solid IW build, and I might have found onel. Maybe you will think so too.

Stats:
Illusion magic 11 + 3(rune) +1(hat)
Domination magic 11 + 1(rune)
Inspiration magic 0 +1(rune)
Fast Casting 8 + 1(rune)

Weapon set 1: pvp sword of enchanting (20%), inscribed shakram armor + 5 and health +45(while enchanted)
Weapon set 2: vampiric pvp sword 3:1, inscribed chakram armor +5 and health +45 (while enchanted)

Skillbar:
Flurry | Illusion of Weakness | Illusion of Haste | Sympathetic Visage |
Backfire | Shatter Enchant | Illusionary Weaponry | res sig

Strengths:
Stability: Stacking enchants over IW is a point i can't stress enough. God knows how many IW mesmers i've killed by removing their IW with shatter enchant. Placing spammable enchants like Illusion of Haste and Sympathetic Visage over IW makes it harder for people to remove it.

Illusion of Haste: a decent alternative to your typical snare skill such as Imagined Burden. Plus its spammable and cheap, and makes pindown/barb trap rangers sweat.

Warrior handling: Sympathetic Visage and flurry helps make easy work of warriors. No adrenaline for them, more attack speed for me, combined with IW will do the job. On average, with Illusion of Weakness granting me an extra heal, I can take on two W/R at the same time and emerge victorious.

Weaknesses:
Hexes: against teams of necros and mesmers, I'll often find myself under a thousand hexes, and there's nothing i can do about them really.

Spiking: low AL, blah blah, need i say more.

The occasional Rend necro: kinda throws my idea of stacking enchants over IW out the window doesn't it?

I have witnessed an increase of interest in IW mesmers, and I've seen many boring, or easily defeated builds utilizing IW. So I'm sharing this build to you all in hopes that someone may learn a few things from it.

I know I have recieved much praise from the people I get partied with, and much hatred from the people I defeat with this build. But it would be nice if I could get some commentary, additions, or suggestions on this build as well.

Red Locust · Oct 14, 2005, 03:20 AM // 03:20

I don't see how you could run that IW mesmer without running into serious energy problems.

For starters, you have absolutely no energy management.
Flurry costs you 5e every 5seconds, almost negating your natural energy regen. Shatter enchant and backfire both cost 15e. each.
Illusion of haste is a very heavy investment, since once you start it up, you're forced into renewing it every 12s. or else you're left immobile and useless.

I don't see how you could keep all this up for any prolonged period of time. My suggestion? Inspiration, drain enchantment and power drain. Possibly even inspired hex or leech signet.

Other than that, looks pretty good, for your standard IW mesmer.

TheCrimsonBlur · Oct 14, 2005, 07:25 PM // 19:25

I agree, I have been seeing a lot more IW builds around. IW allows for a lot of creativity that a lot of people dont delve into. Well, I have been tinkering with one and maybe you should give it a try. Here it is:

Domination Magic: 12 + 2(rune)= 14
Illusion Magic: 11 + 1(mask) + 3(rune)= 15
Fast Casting: 6 + 1(rune) = 7

Blackout
Backfire
Illusionary Weaponry [E]
Flurry
Illusion of Weakness
Shatter Enchantment
Wastrels Worry
Rez Sig

Well, the idea is to use IW then use Illusion of Weakness as a cover enchant before you charge in (have the monk heal your Illusion of Weakness damage immeditely then charge). Once you start attacking, put Wastrels on quickly, slap on Flurry, then Blackout,and attack for major IW damage. Wastrels, Flurry, and Blackout take nearly no time to cast so this all happens very fast. You will recharge 3 or so seconds before your opponent and thats when you hit em with first a Wastrels that will definitely hit em, then a Backfire, and yet another Wastrels followed by more Flurrys. They might get the hex removed by someone else but it will at least buy you time for Blackout to recharge and the madness to happen again.

The basic damage output is as so:

40ish with each strike of the sword (you will attack 5 or 6 times during the time your skills are recharging so 200-240 damage)
60 from first Wastrel, 60 from second Wastrel, 60 from third or 133 if they cast through backfire= 180 or 253 if they cast through backfire

So, you will have em shut down (you cant do anything if you cant use skills :P) and deal major damage at the same time. You generally take the target monk that your team is NOT attacking to shut em down while your team distracts the other monk. This build can take anything due to the flexibility of Blackout and has VERY convenient durations. Here's what I mean:

-Blackout disables your skills for 5 seconds--Flurry lasts for 5 seconds (so you will have Flurry during all of Blackout)
-Backfire has a 3 second cast time (2.22 with Fast Casting) and you have about that much time to cast while your opponents skills are disabled (no interrupts).
-Backfire lasts for 10 seconds, Blackout has a 10 second recharge (it will most likely be removed tho, hopefully your team keeps the other monks occupied)

Illusion of Weakness is seriously awesome on this build, since you have a major and sup rune, health back is niiice (however, since they are disabled, you usually dont take much anyway) and it is an awesome cover enchant. If you have a decent prot monk, you will have other covers as well.

Shatter enchant is great against those pesky enchants that limit your damage and deals awesome spike damage.

Eh? So what do you think? Rend/Desecrate enchanters are the only ones I have ever really had trouble with but I usually can take care of them by targetting them and leaving my target. Its been really successful for me at least.

Yukito Kunisaki · Oct 14, 2005, 08:22 PM // 20:22

Well, don't fight me, I'm a Rend user that punishes using Swift Chop for dodge happy people...

I'd definitely recommend something like Shield Stance or what not. An extra stance for cooldown time isn't a bad idea.

Arcane Echo IW maybe?

smurfhunter · Oct 14, 2005, 09:27 PM // 21:27

Quote:

Originally Posted by Yukito Kunisaki

Arcane Echo IW maybe?

aside from being energy intensive, IW outlasts arcane echo, so unless you plan on having it removed it wont do you any good

cookiehoarder · Oct 15, 2005, 12:18 AM // 00:18

W00t! Drain enchant!

Charr Killer · Oct 15, 2005, 12:57 AM // 00:57

ok i admit im kinda a noob but whats an IW??

PLZ SUM1 TELL ME!

cookiehoarder · Oct 15, 2005, 01:04 AM // 01:04

Illusionary
Weaponry

Don't USE IT.

Charr Killer · Oct 15, 2005, 01:10 AM // 01:10

Quote:

Originally Posted by cookiehoarder

Illusionary
Weaponry

Don't USE IT.

OK........
thx anyway

twicky_kid · Oct 15, 2005, 01:58 AM // 01:58

Quote:

Originally Posted by TheCrimsonBlur

I agree, I have been seeing a lot more IW builds around. IW allows for a lot of creativity that a lot of people dont delve into.

quite the opposite. IW req this always. flurry, IW, distortion or IOW, and res sig. now that's 3 skills on the bar gone just to do 40 dmg/sec. now what can we use with IW. just about nothing. your attacks don't really hit so you gain no adrenaline. that's out the window. since it doesn't hit +dmg skills are useless. other attack skills req you to hit to gain the extra affect. since iw doesn't hit you cannot use any of the warrior's attack skills while it is in effect.

iw is very narrow skill. you can do 40 dmg/sec but that's about it. shielding hands does reduce the dmg it does but nothing else. rend or lingering and your useless.

NatalieD · Oct 15, 2005, 02:10 AM // 02:10

Quote:

Originally Posted by twicky_kid

iw is very narrow skill. you can do 40 dmg/sec but that's about it.

Correction: you can do 40 dmg/sec while substantially disrupting your target with repeated blackouts. People who run IW without Blackout make me sad.

The risk of rend/lingering is why I wouldn't feel confident about bringing IW to the tombs, but it works pretty well in 4v4 if you remember to cover it.

arredondo · Oct 15, 2005, 02:51 AM // 02:51

Quote:

Originally Posted by twicky_kid

quite the opposite. IW req this always. flurry, IW, distortion or IOW, and res sig. now that's 3 skills on the bar gone just to do 40 dmg/sec. now what can we use with IW. just about nothing. your attacks don't really hit so you gain no adrenaline. that's out the window. since it doesn't hit +dmg skills are useless. other attack skills req you to hit to gain the extra affect. since iw doesn't hit you cannot use any of the warrior's attack skills while it is in effect.

iw is very narrow skill. you can do 40 dmg/sec but that's about it. shielding hands does reduce the dmg it does but nothing else. rend or lingering and your useless.

Incorrect. Imagination in GW allows for plenty of options, even if some are not as obvious as others:

=====================================
MeRa

Fast Cast: 4
Insp.: 10
Illusion: 16
Beast Mastery: 9
(+20% enchant mod on sword, with +45 health & +12 energy Chakram in off hand)

Illusionary Weapon = 42 damage a swing
Illusion of Weakness = +253 health
Illusion of Haste = 14.4 secs of speed
Sympathetic Visage = 25.2 secs of AoE anti-adrenaline and -3E
Power Drain = +21E on spell interrupt
Tiger's Fury = 9 secs of extra attack speed for 47 DPS with IW
Symbiosis = +100 health for every enchant on you
Rez
==========================

A VERY tough tank. You walk around with 653 extra health on top of your normal amount, giving you easily over 1,100 total health under Symbiosis (4x100 +253 which is hidden). Energy is addressed decently, so combined with smart use of casting, you'll be ok in your assaults. Even if you lose one of your enchant defenses, you are still in extremely good shape.

Lose 'em all to Rend or Lingering? Skirt away with IoH until your skills recharge, then next time Power Drain interrupt that Necro when he tries stripping you again followed by IW aggression to slice him to shreds. This build can laugh off Desecrate Enchants also due to the Symbiosis buff.

Speaking in absolutes is rarely helpful when talking about skills. There are far too many build combinations to be eventually stumbled on that often prove the absolutes wrong. Let's think harder about coming up with new stuff instead of raising artificial ceilings.

Mithroch · Oct 15, 2005, 08:26 AM // 08:26

Quote:

Originally Posted by TheCrimsonBlur

I agree, I have been seeing a lot more IW builds around. IW allows for a lot of creativity that a lot of people dont delve into. Well, I have been tinkering with one and maybe you should give it a try. Here it is:

Domination Magic: 12 + 2(rune)= 14
Illusion Magic: 11 + 1(mask) + 3(rune)= 15
Fast Casting: 6 + 1(rune) = 7

Blackout
Backfire
Illusionary Weaponry [E]
Flurry
Illusion of Weakness
Shatter Enchantment
Wastrels Worry
Rez Sig

I've been playing with pretty much the same build except that I like Clumsiness instead of Backfire. It casts quick enough that sometimes you can slip in on a slower attack skill (i.e. Poison Arrow). Warriors also tend not to notice it fast enough and really, since Blackout takes everything else... they can only attack... or run. I do like your lock down tactic though... I may have to play with it a bit. I will admit Backfire works so much better against Necros... the bane of IWs everywhere.

stryphe · Oct 15, 2005, 09:42 AM // 09:42

With IW, I love Blackout, at 11 it's 6 seconds, and that's enough for me. That's the only dom skill I'll use with the build except for maybe Hex Breaker.

Dom 10+1
Illusion 11+1+3
Inspiration 10+1
Fast Cat 1+1 ...meh

Illusion Staff +20% Enchant to cast enchants first then switch to
+5 energy sword(I wish I could still buy these)+5 AL or 30 HP +45 Health +5 AL (enchanted) Chakram.

Illusion of Weakness / Ether Feast
Illusionary Weaponry {E}
Blackout
Flurry / Distortion / Hex Breaker (stance slot)
Imagined Burden
Inspired Enchant
Energy Tap / Spirit of Failure / (Energy Management of choice)
Res Sig

With Spirit of Failure I love Distortion. Great for attack focus fire from wars and rangers

Ether Feast or Illusion of Weakness I found can work equally well, with a monk IoW works a bit better for me so I don't have to worry about healing.

I leave energy management open really because most of us know what works well for ourselves. Whatever it is. This build is so flexible, but can be restrictive sometimes. As a mesmer, you're already marked. But there is hope with a good team.

Leave feedback on this if you guys want, I don't care. I post what works for me, but I am always open to suggestions.

Slade xTekno · Oct 15, 2005, 04:43 PM // 16:43

Quote:

Originally Posted by twicky_kid

quite the opposite. IW req this always. flurry, IW, distortion or IOW, and res sig. now that's 3 skills on the bar gone just to do 40 dmg/sec. now what can we use with IW. just about nothing. your attacks don't really hit so you gain no adrenaline. that's out the window. since it doesn't hit +dmg skills are useless. other attack skills req you to hit to gain the extra affect. since iw doesn't hit you cannot use any of the warrior's attack skills while it is in effect.

iw is very narrow skill. you can do 40 dmg/sec but that's about it. shielding hands does reduce the dmg it does but nothing else. rend or lingering and your useless.

Um, no.

IW can be run in many ways. I know several R/Me's who run IW with Tiger's Fury and Expertise stances. Hell, I even met a great PvE trapper that ran in with IW after he had done this dirty work.

IW is one of the broadest skills in the game. Due to the fact that you can rely on that one skill for damage allows you to do almost anything else with the rest of your build.

lyra_song · Oct 15, 2005, 08:10 PM // 20:10

I actually used IW with my Axe warrior because i didnt have a sword pommel of enchanting >.> Its fun using Cyclone Axe + IW

TheCrimsonBlur · Oct 15, 2005, 08:49 PM // 20:49

Quote:

Originally Posted by twicky_kid

quite the opposite. IW req this always. flurry, IW, distortion or IOW, and res sig. now that's 3 skills on the bar gone just to do 40 dmg/sec. now what can we use with IW. just about nothing. your attacks don't really hit so you gain no adrenaline. that's out the window. since it doesn't hit +dmg skills are useless. other attack skills req you to hit to gain the extra affect. since iw doesn't hit you cannot use any of the warrior's attack skills while it is in effect.

iw is very narrow skill. you can do 40 dmg/sec but that's about it. shielding hands does reduce the dmg it does but nothing else. rend or lingering and your useless.

...obviously, this thread shows that you are wrong. These are many different builds that run COMPLETELY different and dont require anything but IW really..what are you talking about? R/Me (or Me/R) and Me/W are very effective with IW. Try it before you bash it, IW is DEFINITELY not useless. Try different builds with it and you will see that IW owns.

Oh, and Blackout has been gaining a lot of popularity too (god, it owns my monk). Great skill really.

Mango Midget · Oct 15, 2005, 10:28 PM // 22:28

Another Fun Fact for Me/W IW's like me: Illusionary Weaponry+Flurry+ IWAY= Dead target.

smurfhunter · Oct 16, 2005, 12:06 AM // 00:06

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mango Midget

Another Fun Fact for Me/W IW's like me: Illusionary Weaponry+Flurry+ IWAY= Dead target.

attack speed is now capped at 33% faster, so this is kind of pointless

Sidrakket · Oct 16, 2005, 12:23 AM // 00:23

In pvp it just not dependable enough, it can go well and everythings amazing, but you have to devote entire build to it.

In pve however its a usefull tool;

12+4 illusion
11+1 domination
rest in fast cast+1 (or more into domination if you really want)

1. Flurry
2. IW
3. Clumsiness
4. Power spike
5. Cry of frustration
6. Backfire
7. Empathy
8. Rez sig

In pve the idea is to kill things as fast as possible and interupt nasty self healing bosses or things like meteor. Mesmer can do alot of damage verry fast to stupid mobs. But once the key members of enemy mob group are dead, what to do? Wand and wait on recharges so you obliterate some poor imp? Or hit IW and do ~42 dps with flurry, or ~30 dps with out flurry? Hit with IW only 6 times out of the duration and you have done 250 damage for 15 energy. You should easily be able to do 500 damage during the duration even with out flurry and while casting spells. Because of fast casting and powerfull spells with big timers mesmer have alot of free time, why not do extra damage?

Key moments for IW are;

1. A random melee mob has ran up and is attacking the casters. You can kill it fast and easy~ ^^
2. There is a boss left, other than keep it empathy and clumsiness with interupt if needed there nothing left to do, go melee it, wand is weak. Dont bother customising your pathetic caster weapons, maybe someday you give it to newbie ^^
3. Healer mob is taken out, a bunch of tank mobs left. Empathy+clumsiness one (it probably kill itself now) IW and kil everything elsel. You kill as fast as three w/mo all by yourself ^^.

General tip for mesmer. Do not focus your fire(unless it a boss). Other class do this because they are weak or their method for damaging is direct and instant. But you can take out any caster mob all by yourself in a matter of seconds. And melee mobs, dont empathy somthing that about to die, pick an out of the way target and it will kill itself. This is most efficient. Focus when wanding. But when IWing random mob warriors get in way and block your path with their large bodies. There usualy always three w/mo all taking up space. Mesmer solos in a group, only convergeing on key targets. ALl other class should focus fire, but mesmer can waste many energy points by casting a hex on somthing that is about to die. Key for happyness is to always strive to be efficient. There is no sorrow when you do things well~